Filmmaker Spotlight: Lucy Cameron

LUCY CAMERON is a Canadian producer and director working in nonfiction.

What question is not asked of you during these types of interviews that you think that people should ask you about you and your work to get to know you and your work better?

One thing that I like to know about other filmmakers, to better understand their work, which maybe would apply as an answer to this question is what interests you outside of your filmmaking practice? What life, work experiences do you bring to your work beyond filmmaking and your history in this industry? Artists tend to do the same kind of work over and over, so what kind of archetypal is that for you?

Can you answer that question in the way you laid out?

On a larger scale, I'm really interested thematically in institutions of power, and the way that individuals find themselves navigating them, and the places where people find a kind of hope and try to carve out a place for themselves as individuals within these institutions of power. The way that those systems can sometimes – I don't want to be too negative – but erode a person, or challenge them or take them to a breaking point, which is what Basic Training is about. Those are themes that I find myself drawn to in general.

Still from Basic Training

Besides representation, besides having female voices behind the screen, why film?

When I started working in film, I don't know, ten plus years ago, I initially thought that I wanted to be a writer. I never actually intended to go into documentary, but I was always really interested in social justice issues, but also in real people. I always found real people, real characters and real conflicts to be more compelling to me than fictional characters, just the kind of unevenness and inconsistencies and the kind of rawness that comes with real life or even the mundaneness. I find it as a storyteller to be like a really compelling ground. I'm interested in combining elements of fiction and nonfiction. I'm developing a scripted project right now, for example, that's informed by the performer's life. I feel like I could spend my whole life just listening to people and their stories.

So in basic training, what were the systems that you were trying to address and why did you want to address those systems?

When I first met Brandon and he told me the story that resulted in this short film, it was a three hour long conversation. There's so much in the story that didn't make it into the film. The interlocking systems of faith, coming from a conservative religious background, of ideals of masculinity that young men deal with, especially when you're figuring out who you are in the world, what you want to do with your life at 17, and, of course, the Canadian Armed Forces. Those three forces intersected in a particular young man's life, and I wanted to explore these systems of power.

Still from Basic Training

Let's say we were asking you to do a promo for Basic Training to sell the film in 30 seconds. How would you do it?

Basic Training is the true story of a young man who thought that he saw a path for himself. Over the course of a few days, his world turned upside down in ways that he could never have foreseen.

What are the filmmakers who have inspired you?

That's so hard. Can I speak in more general terms? I draw a lot of inspiration from indie filmmakers of the 90s, like Canadian and American. I love a film that seems kind of even a bit weird. You’re not necessarily sure where it's going to go, and you can tell that it kind of came together just around a vision and not a ton of resources necessarily. 

I like American indie filmmakers like Kelly Reichardt and, on the Canadian side, Don McKellar, his film Last Night was a big one for me. Peter Mettler’s Picture of Light. There are a bunch of European filmmakers that I love as well, like Céline Sciamma, Varda, Angela Schanelec, Thomas Vinterberg, the list kind of goes on and on. 

I love an indie film that looks like it was really made with a lot of heart and very cleverly deployed resources. It isn't overproduced. Sometimes big movies seem like they've been so digested by so many different people and market interests.

Do you find yourself referencing those filmmakers that have inspired you? 

When I watch more quiet films, Kelly Reichardt's films for example, I see the possibilities of spending time in quiet moments with characters that can be really compelling. I want to be respectful of audiences and not make work that's boring, but I think that you can make understated, character driven work that doesn't need a ton of bells and whistles or an enormous amount of plot to be moving.

Sometimes, directors encounter a conflict between making a living from your art and actually staying true to your art. How do you navigate this, if it’s something you have experienced?

Making your own art and also trying to make a living in the arts, sometimes can be in conflict especially in terms of like a person's time and like their own resources. I've been really fortunate to receive support from arts councils for my work, which is great, but also support from community. You meet so many wonderful people that are happy to collaborate with you and that you might want to also support them in their work. It's nice to have that kind of network that you built through work that actually pays you; one would hope you can also use it for passion projects on the side. I've also been really fortunate to work for and with filmmakers that I really admire, who have been mentors and always supported me to do my own thing.

Still from Basic Training

If you had advice for an emerging filmmaker, what would it be?

I would say, don't be afraid to make mistakes or something that is bad. Don't worry too much about who's going to be watching your work or what kind of cultural climate it's emerging into, like what festivals might be looking for. You can only make something that really is meaningful to you and hopefully people will connect with it. Don't worry about making stuff that sucks because you'll make stuff and you won't be happy with it, and you'll make other things and you will be happy with it. Just keep going. 

Secondly, the value of community is so huge. I don't just mean like, oh, my friend is an amazing DP and they're also going to shoot my film. That's great. But in your wider community, people who may not work in film or even in the arts, they stimulate you intellectually or support your process in other ways. 

What's next for you in your career?

I mentioned I'm working on a scripted project, which I'm really enjoying with a friend. She is a performer and I've never really done anything scripted before, so it's a little bit of a hybrid short that we're working on. Then I'm developing a doc about the kind of boom and bust of a small town that was built around a resource-based economy in BC, where I’m from. I find BC to be creatively rich. Whenever I go out there, I feel, maybe it's just something about being in nature, but there's more space to have ideas and it's obviously so visually rich. Then, another project with a friend who is an investigative journalist, building off some of their work. Little things simmering along outside of my day job. 

The kinds of documentaries that I think are the best done  are things that deal with issues that are very hot and people have very closely held views about. But it's not like a polemic. It's not “this is good and this is bad.” Maybe here's a character who's struggling with these things, and their reasons for struggling with them are their own and they're valid.

Interview by Breakthroughs Board Member Sunita Miya-Muganzar

*This article has been edited for clarity

Filmmaker Spotlight: Kathleen Burgess and Maria Barr, Dandelion Green

KATHLEEN BURGESS (she/they) is an award-winning Tkaronto-based director passionate about exploring the dimensions of friendship, play, and queerness through a surreal lens.

Typically in independent filmmaking, there's a director who is usually the writer, but this film has a writer and a director. Where did you meet and what made you decide to work together?

KATHLEEN: Marie and I met in our undergraduate program at TMU in media production. We met in a documentary filmmaking class in our third year, and worked on that project together. And it just like all started from there, our friendship as well. We had our thesis film project coming up, and I remember wondering who I am going to work with. We had just started to talk about inspirations and themes we liked, and it came up like an actual question, do you want to work together?

It was a strong intuition. We had all of these conversations about our potential thesis film. After this brainstorm, I felt so inspired, that’s how I knew we'd definitely make something together.

MARIA BARR: Like Kathleen said, we met doing a documentary. We shot it literally the week before lockdown started. We did the whole post-production process over Zoom in March and April of 2020. So it was a memorable start to a working relationship and also to a friendship. And I think it really bonded us. Then when Kat reached out, probably in the fall of 2020, about working on something together, the idea of making a coming of age came really naturally to both of us. It was never a question of what our roles would be. Kat was really interested in directing, and that wasn't something that I was personally ready for or interested in. But I've always loved to write and I like to edit as well. It was really like a creative partnership as co-creators. It felt equal from the start, and I felt we were in the roles that made the most sense for us. 

What led you to film school?

KATHLEEN: Applying for media production programs was like a last minute thing. But I grew up figure skating, so I was always very into performance. I realized, after I quit, I really missed that creative aspect. I did lots of drama and photography in high school, and I never really put it together. I was never in any film classes. But the creative aspect and the team aspect of filmmaking is what I really loved. I like bringing something together that's literally impossible to do by yourself. That's what made me very excited to go to that school.

MARIA: For me, I like that the program we went to is not technically a film school, it's a media production program. I didn't even really realize that I wanted to specifically work in film or television. But I knew I wanted to do something creative, for sure. When I was in high school, I did a really cool summer program at Simon Fraser University Film School. Over the course of either two weeks or three weeks, you make a short film. I did that for three summers. I made a documentary and then two little narrative shorts, which was my first step into filmmaking. I really loved those programs. Looking back, I didn't even realize how much they meant to me. So I knew I wanted to do something in that world. Once I got to maybe the middle of my degree is when I realized screenwriting is where I really wanted to focus. It was gradual. Even now, who knows where I'll end up? I don't know if I'll do film forever. Maybe I'll do something else, as long as it's like something fun and creative.

Still from Dandelion Green

What were some of the filmmakers that inspired you?

KATHLEEN: There are so many. Especially in the last couple of years, as you get more into film, you just get more and more inspired by people in your direct community. But to name a few, Jasmin Mozaffari is one. She did the film program at TMU, but I discovered her as we were developing Dandelion Green. I watched her feature, Firecrackers, and something about it, how it felt so raw and real and emotional. It's like when you watch a film, you're like, damn, I wish I made that. That’s the kind of reaction I had to it. Another director that I'm inspired by, who's from the States, is Olivia Peace who directed Tahara. They really have this experimental approach to filmmaking where they incorporate mixed media, animation, and they're not afraid to break the boundaries of it.

MARIA: Before I started university, I was very inspired by coming of age films, which I think is partly why we ended up making one for the thesis, to pay tribute to those big coming of age films that left such an impact on us.

In high school, I was a huge fan of Almost Famous. Submarine, which I rewatched last week for the first time since I was 15, expecting to feel differently about it but, this is still a really good film. Electric Children, directed by Rebecca Thomas. Coming of age films in general that have moments that feel big because they're teenagers. Definitely Greta Gerwig, Lady Bird was a big one for me. In terms of screenwriting, I'm a big fan of Emma Seligman, her dialogue. 

Do you have any advice for emerging filmmakers who are just starting out, both from a director's perspective and from a writer's perspective?

MARIA: Watch as many movies as you possibly can of all different genres, even stuff that you don't think you're going to like. Building that reference library in your mind is really important as you're trying to establish your voice. For writing, getting your hands on actual scripts is nice. Learning technical standards, figuring out how to write a script. And also connecting with your community, It cannot be understated that the indie film scene in Toronto is such a small world. It's really important to know who you're going to be working with and to have a good reputation, be a nice person and support your peers. That's really, really, really important is to be there for your community to show up and go to film screenings and stay for the Q&A and talk to the director after. Make stuff with your friends, in your backyard with like, on your phone, just make as much stuff as you can and make friends with people.

KATHLEEN: We are definitely still emerging, but from the process of making Dandelion Green, like Maria was saying, amazing friendships just came out of that film. We put that intention into it. From a directing perspective, really don't be afraid to lean into your style, even if you feel like it's not what's cool or trendy or unique. It's one of those things, you're most in-tune with yourself so you may not think it's original because you're always thinking of it, but people haven't seen it before. So make iterations of it. Even if it's something really small and it's not even like a short film. It could be a scene. Because once you bring that thing to life, it helps build your confidence. If you gatekeep your own ideas, it can get very frustrating.

I think a lot of times young people can think this is THE short film, and put it up on a big pedestal. But you have to remember that all the projects you make add up. That's something I'm trying to listen to.

Still from Dandelion Green

Dandelion Green was like a little delicate flower, but like, holy shit, what am I watching? What drew you to tell this story about a 17 year old who's on the cusp of aging out of the foster system? What initially inspired you to explore Kay's experience in particular?

MARIA: The idea for Dandelion Green came from a lot of different places. Originally, we wanted to tell a queer friendship story. We wanted to tell a friendship  love story, and explore themes like platonic intimacy and chosen family through the lens of coming of age. We also were drawing on some of our own experience and growing up in tumultuous family situations, although neither of us were in the foster care system. When I started looking into the foster care system, what I found really interesting and really heartbreaking about the system is that when you age out of the system, you have no choice. It's a very harsh line of you're 17, you're a child and you have no control over your life, less than even the average kid who's not in the system. Then you turn 18 and you're basically on your own, the support for kids who have recently aged out of the foster care system in Ontario are pretty minimal. So you're forced to go from being a child to an adult in a moment. That was really interesting to me. 

We watched a film, called Princess Cyd, about a teenage girl that has a tough family situation and goes to live with her aunt. And I thought it was interesting to explore the idea of staying in someone's house that is not your own. Who could you be if you were in a space that is not familiar to yourself, to what you're used to? We did a lot of research into the foster care system, watched a lot of documentaries, listened to a lot of podcasts, and we got in touch with StepStones for Youth, an organization in Toronto that helps foster kids. We talked to them and they worked as a consultant on the film. We also interviewed some people who were in the system and different foster parents to really try and get the perspective of different aspects of the people that engage with the foster care system. So that I think is where the idea mainly came from.

We were really trying to find moments of levity in a really tough situation. Trying to imagine two kids that were in the situation of being in the system, and one of them was about to age out. But by chance or by fate, they end up meeting each other at the perfect moment for what each of them needs and create a beautiful friendship.

KATHLEEN: My aunt was a foster parent for a while, so I remember when Maria brought up the idea, I knew we should talk to her. That was a really long interview and it really echoed with us. And even though I didn't grow up in foster care, I definitely grew up moving around a lot and always like packing all my stuff, going to like my different parents' houses. That sentiment when you're younger, of having to rush and go really quickly was something I related to. 

The other root of it was this queer friendship that we really wanted to explore, that was somewhere between romantic and platonic. Around the time that we started talking, I was coming into my queerness and being more open with it – I was very closeted before. I feel like a lot of queer kids growing up experience that relationship and then didn't really know how to describe it, like that didn't happen, that didn't exist. Even though the issue that we wanted to go head on was this foster care experience and aging out, we also wanted that relationship of joy and happiness to drive the story and have that hopeful ending to really be a big part of it.

One of the moments that really stood out for me was like this sudden responsibility.  I thought it was really fascinating when she turned 18 by the end of the film. I was so hurt by that idea that this child, who has never experienced stability, has to take on this like sense of stability. There was a moment where the social worker was said best of luck. I felt it was such a harsh farewell. What did you want to convey in that particular moment? What are the things that we don't know about children aging out of the system of foster care?

MARIA: Because neither Kat nor I have ever been in the system, we did want to make it as authentic as possible, which is why we had a sensitivity reader and did interviews. Something that we found really striking is that the support for foster kids who have aged out are not what you think they might be. They typically get an apartment and a monthly allowance, which I don't remember the exact time frame, but it doesn't last super long. And these kids are 18, they could still be in high school. Like I mentioned before, when you're a foster kid, you have much less control over your life than maybe the average kid would. The stark difference is even more visible. We really wanted to show this, the harsh reality of the foster care system with the ending. But we also wanted to have the hopeful silver lining of Olivia leaving all of these drawings that she had done, of the two of them together and the memories that they shared as a reminder that you're not alone, you'll find your community again. We wanted to keep it open ended. 

A lot of people maybe don't know that in the foster care system indigenous kids are massively overrepresented. I wanted to make note of that as something really important to recognize. There's a lot of issues with the foster care system, which is why StepStones for Youth is a really great organization that I would encourage people to check out.

KATHLEEN: When we were writing Kay’s social worker, we wanted her to represent the very tough part of the foster care system in Ontario versus Amir, who was Olivia’s social worker. We gave him a kinder side. He's almost worn out by the system because he came into it really trying to make a difference. But then you get stuck because it's so flawed from the beginning. There's only so much you can do in it as well. We really want people to think, what are we doing to these kids?

Still from Dandelion Green

In the first scene with K, we're going over the rules and regulations of this new house. And Olivia, you're seeing her packing her bag and just walking out. Was that the contrast of these two worlds? 

MARIA: We really wanted to show a contrast in two different experiences navigating the system with Kay and Olivia. They come from different backgrounds, Kay is supposed to be coming from a group home, and Olivia is coming from her mother's house. We wanted to show two different social workers, with different levels of empathy towards the kids. And we wanted to show different aspects in a short amount of time. In the first scene with Kay, that's a real thing that happens with foster kids, they have to be read their rights before they're moved to a new home. It’s there to protect them, but there's something really carceral about it. It's like a mantra that these kids learn because they've heard it so many times for those who are moved around a lot. So we wanted to show a contrast throughout the film between Kay and Olivia. In some ways, Olivia still has hope to be reunited with her mom, whereas Kay is just waiting until the day that they age out.

Yeah. So the question was that, at the beginning of, so I'm just following a when Maria said, she said that, you know, these two people, these two, Olivia and K, have sort of different lives in a sense that K being in foster care, she is her life is really controlled and it's contrary to kids who are coming from just regular home.

KATHLEEN: Later in the film, they’re about to collide. Showing that visually by cutting back and forth and overlapping their audio was a stylistic decision to tell the audience that they're about to meet.

I have noticed that you often are drawn to stories about women and femmes navigating the margins of society. What do you personally connect with characters like Kay and Olivia, and are there shared experiences and perspectives that you feel align with your own?

KATHLEEN: When Maria was writing this film, even though we came up with the story together, it felt like I could see a part of myself in it. Firstly, for Olivia's character, she's always keeping it all in and then using her drawings to let it out, almost like therapy. That's kind of what I relate to, a creative outlet. Growing up I would just let it all bubble in, and there were all these chaotic things happening in my family, and finding skating at the time or a drama was the way I learned to express myself. For Kay, their need to feel in control by being so independent is something that I think lots of women and femme people can relate to because they've been hurt so many times before, and it becomes very hard to trust. Showing how it hurts and you try to hide away and be like, “I can do this all by myself. I can be really tough.” 

Our actors really brought their unique perspectives to their characters. I was so happy to be a part of this film because we had so many conversations on set and it would totally change my intentions. It was a very collaborative process.

MARIA: Similarly, I see myself in so many different aspects of this film. I particularly see myself when I was writing it because, at this point, we started working on this film in late 2020. So we were younger, we were still in university, in the midst of a pandemic, sometimes it feels like a lifetime ago. I was thinking a lot about connection and longing for connection and loneliness was a big thing in my life that year, as it was for a lot of people.

In terms of like the specifics of each character, I'm definitely more like Olivia, finding the silver lining. Finding an outlet to keep going is something that I feel like a lot of teenagers relate to. I don't necessarily relate all that much to Kay, but I feel that maybe that’s the part of me that I push down, like the part that feels untrustworthy and rundown sometimes.

Do you have anything coming up?
MARIA: We're working on a film currently. We were participants in a soft pitch competition back in June. So we have a film in development called Eleanor that is about an elderly lesbian who is, in her own way, aging out of being able to ride her motorcycle and be a part of the motorcycling community in small town Ontario. We’ve been calling it a little bit of a twist on the coming of age, the coming of age of an elderly lesbian who has been through some stuff and is super tough, but also is like going through all these new experiences that come with getting older. We’re hoping we will be able to make it next year.

Interview by Breakthroughs Board Member Sunita Miya-Muganzar

*This article has been edited for clarity

Filmmaker Spotlight: Halima Ouardiri, The Skates

HALIMA OUARDIRI is a Swiss-Moroccan writer and director is a graduate of the Mel Hoppenheim School of Cinema in Montreal, Canada. Her first short film, MOKHTAR, screened in the top festivals around the world. CLEBS won the Crystal bear in Generation at the 2020 Berlinale. She is currently developing her debut feature film, THE CAMEL DRIVING SCHOOL.

What filmmakers inspired you to be a filmmaker?

To be honest, I came into cinema quite late, and also I was not really a cinephile before. I came to cinema through documentaries, in fact. So I started discovering filmmakers who directed amazing documentaries. I remember one, from Nicola Philibert, To Be And To Have, that I was completely amazed by the camerawork, the protagonists and all these real people. I was curious about how they did this, how they worked with the real people to achieve such intimacy. The film happens in a classroom with different children from different ages. So more and more, I started watching different documentaries, mostly auteur documentaries. 

I was studying political science, while on the side, I was watching more and more cinema. And then I decided, this is what I really want to do, I want to tell stories and I want to tell stories that are not very much told yet. I think I can do this. I started doing it with my own camera, filming my family, filming around me, trying to put those images together with the editing. Then I applied to a cinema school in Montreal.

So lots of filmmakers inspired me, but I have many. I'm watching a lot of different filmmakers, a lot of different cinema. And I'm still really being inspired by the younger ones. 

What advice would you give to an emerging filmmaker, if they were in your shoes at the beginning?

I would tell them to tell stories that are close to them. Because it takes time to make a film, and it's a lot of effort. Having a subject that is very personal or at least that you know well, would be easier, I think, to get close to it and to be able to also give it to the public. You know exactly what you're talking about. It’s easier to start with than some other subject that is exciting and might be very modern or interesting to an audience, but it's not so close to you.

Still from The Skates

I want to lean into this idea of telling stories from your own memories and stuff. And I know The Skates in particular was coming from your own memories. The acting in this film is chef’s kiss. What are your essential tools in terms of casting and what are some things that you do that you have seen other directors not do in terms of getting the right actor? 

Follow your instinct. When you're writing a piece, you have initial ideas of actors that come to mind. Stick to those ideas. Ask around what people think, but always go back to what you really have inside of you as the first instinct. And for the little girl in this film, I knew exactly what I wanted. So perhaps my description to an agent was clear, age, what she looked like, her overall emotion. I was very lucky also to have a person that understood me very well and gave me a name, Ines Feghouli. And that was it. It was her. She understood the role perfectly. It took a while before the film was financed, but I stuck with her the whole way through. I didn't do any auditions with other actors because it was the obvious choice. 

Sometimes you can doubt yourself and be like, oh, should I do auditions and try to find this actor that no one knows yet? Inez has already acted in numerous other films and TV series, but for me, it didn't matter. I didn't need to find a new actor, I needed her.

And for the father, I had seen his performance in cinema, and I had seen him in theater. Then people reminded me, you know, there is this actor, Mani Soleymanlou, I think you guys, we should work together. It came at the right time. I also recognized in him the ability to play both the charming dad and the reverse.

His wife is Sophie Cadieux. So I said if they didn’t mind playing in the same movie, then she’s a wonderful actress. I needed someone really expressive with no words. I thought it was just simpler that way to keep it in the microcosm of their own.

So the mom was played by his actual wife?

Yeah. They’re a very happy couple. They usually never accept acting together because they want to separate private life and work. But in that case, because they didn't really share the screen, she said yes.

That's what I was saying. I'm coming from documentaries. So sometimes I'm thinking in that way like, oh he's married to this wonderful actress.

To finish, 90% of the directing is in the casting. Because they are amazing actors, my directing was really in small details or discussions in prep. On set, it was very minimal because they were cast appropriately for the script.

Still from The Skates

I wanted to go to the moment when the mom comes in. Nina looks at mom. Mom is like, “where's your skates?” And Nina repeats what her father says: It's like it's not even a good sport, spinning on ice like idiots. That stuck out so much because it was such a powerful echo of internalized memory. Looking back, is there any aspect of your own experiences that felt similar to this particular scene, and did that influence the way you approach putting this film together?

It's something I've experienced, unfortunately. That's what I mean by know your subject intimately, then those subtleties come into place in the script.

I did not base this script just on my own experience. I also researched around me and this film came back to me, this story, this anecdote that I made into a fiction film. It's not my life at all. It's an episode of it that I translated into a fiction. It came back to memory when a friend of mine was going through a very difficult divorce, with a child curled up in the middle and everything she was telling me about it woke up this memory of my childhood with this same kind of mechanism. 

It's a phenomenon that happens, widely, but that is very difficult to see when people are a victim of it, those are such minor events. It's hard for them to say, this is what happened yesterday in my family because it's not much. It's almost irrelevant. But when you add up all those little, mean events, they become huge.

There was something so spectacular about the relationship between the daughter and the father, but there was something so mean about it too, because he's not over this divorce and he's taking it out on this kid who adores him. There's something about parents who take these little mean acts of, I would say, violence towards the children.

Yeah, it is violence. The father is not just mean, it's more complicated than that, and that's the problem in this situation. Love is in there, and also cruelty and violence.

Still from The Skates

How much did your memory or the conversations that you had with your friends going through these difficult periods really inspire you to decide on shot compositions? How did you think about every detail to put this film together?

I didn’t want to stylize it too much. I wanted the film to be very clear and straightforward in a way that those little, very subtle things are coming through, and that the style was not coming in the way of the story I was telling. I thought it was the story that had to be the star of this film. The form was just there to make it happen, and to make the story really clear and efficient. I didn't want it to be less accessible to a wide audience and a young audience as well.

Interview by Breakthroughs Board Member Sunita Miya-Muganzar

*This article has been edited for clarity

Filmmaker Spotlight: Vanessa Sandre, The Pleasure Is All Mine

VANESSA SANDRE is a Brazilian filmmaker based in Toronto, Canada. She holds a Bachelor's degree in Film and a Master's degree in Literature focused on Women and Gender Studies. Vanessa has cultivated a diverse career as a screenwriter, producer, director, and performer for the last 14 years.  As a Latina immigrant and artist, she finds inspiration in crafting narratives that amplify underrepresented voices through a decolonial and intersectional feminist lens.

‘The Pleasure is All Mine’ (O Prazer é Todo Meu, 2023) is her latest fictional short film and addresses the taboo subject of female sexuality in old age. Filmed in Brazil, it has been selected for over 40 film festivals worldwide, including the 32nd MixBrasil, Inside Out Toronto 2SLGBTQ+, and the 35th St. John's International Women's Film Festival. The short also received 22 awards, including ‘Best of the Showcase’ and ‘Audience Award’ at the 2024 WIFT + Toronto Showcase. 

Vanessa has been selected for the Creators of Colour Incubator 2024 - CCI (by Caribbean Tales Media Group) and the Career Advancement Module of WIDC—Women in Director’s Chair. 

For Vanessa, movies are a catalyst for connection and social change, influencing how we see and engage with the world.

Why film? Why did you decide on this of all the things you could do with your life?

That's my question. Every therapy session actually. I don't really have the answer. But I can tell you a little bit about my journey. 

I started with theater and dance when I was a teenager and I fell in love with the arts, but I was not that good in theater. I was not a good actor. I started dancing kind of late, so I was not really good at those practices. I said, oh, maybe I can do something else in the arts, then maybe I can be great. Then I started research. I always loved films and you had the DVD and you watched the extras, but that was something so far from my reality, and I think that's why it attracted me that much. I didn't have any relatives or friends in the industry. Nobody filmed in my city. I got the gut feeling that I should try something really bold. It was funny that I think this year was the first year that I, in therapy, said, okay, I think I made the right decision. 14 years later.

What was happening that led you to make that connection, “I made the right decision.”

It was this film. Throughout my career, I had some moments, but with The Pleasure Is All Mine I feel that I was able to touch so many people and open this big discussion about female sexuality through another point of view. It's so powerful.

I had such a great experience sharing these with people, really true connections, people crying after the session, coming to talk with me, telling them stories. So I think I went into film because I wanted to connect with people. I want to make people feel things. I want to talk with them about those things. So I think this year I had this realization, okay, I'm in the right pathway, I did good with this. And I want to keep doing good. I want to keep connecting with people.

Still from The Pleasure Is All Mine

If you were to advise an emerging filmmaker as to how they get to this place in their career where they're like, I made a good decision, I didn't go to law school, I didn't go to medical school…What would you tell an emerging filmmaker if you were to give them advice about just where you are now?

I consider myself an emerging filmmaker. Right? First of all, it's finding your voice – why are you doing this? If you could do anything else… There are so many pathways you connect and you can be good and do meaningful things. But why this and why are you good at this? And for me, it was really hard as a woman director, screenwriter, creator, to assume this position in my life. It took me more than ten years to say “I'm this and I and I'm good at this.” 

I experimented a lot to understand that I wanted to be in this position. Experiment as much as you can. Second, find your voice. Why do you want this? Why do we want to say this? Not just saying something for the sake of saying something. What do you have to say that is unique? 

You said it took you a while to take position and take space as a woman. I'm always curious because we say this as women, and I think there's something deeper behind that statement. We create human beings. We’re creators of cultures and language and food. So I'm curious as to how you didn't feel comfortable in a space that is so natural to your existence, which is being creative.

I love what you said. It's beautiful. We are so creative, right? We bring life, we make life. And there's nothing more creative than that, right? So I think maybe there's many layers in that. First of all, you don't have role models. I think I didn't know any great female directors when I got into film school. I couldn't see myself in that position because I didn't have something to look at. Second, that we are very hard on ourselves, we don't have the same right to make mistakes as men have. When you are making films, there are a lot of mistakes. We should give ourselves more grace, sometimes you make a bad movie and it's fine because men make bad movies all the time.

I think we have this idea of what a creative, writer, or a director should be.

My first film I filmed at the end of my film school. And then there's The Pleasure Is All Mine, which is just my second film. As a director, writer, director, it took me nine years between each of the films. So I have a different creative process than what you’d think when you think of a writer director. I had to understand this about myself. 

It's interesting that when you accept yourself, you become more creative. Now, I am able to have more projects, but when I was not confident about myself, I could just work really hard on one project at a time.

Still from The Pleasure Is All Mine

You talked about how one of the obstacles was not knowing artists growing up. And so now, let's say, 14 years later, who are the filmmakers that have inspired you?

So many. From Agnes Varda, to my favorite, it's Catherine Breillat – she talks a lot about sexuality now, like almost porn. At this point of my life, I'm trying to research as much as I can, like, decolonial, and black, non-binary, female. I'm really interested in Latin American filmmakers. So I try to watch as much as I can in Latin America, because I also feel that we have a really interesting history, interesting films, and people don't know that.

So let's talk about The Pleasure Is All Mine because it is a spectacular film. You make two two statements that I thought were really interesting. One is the title Pleasure Is All Mine because you're owning pleasure, which is something that women don't do. The other is your casting. Casting a 76 year-old woman who has never experienced orgasm, who goes out of her way to ensure that she does. Those two statements were so powerful, and I wanted to know how you got here.

I was really interested in expanding my vision about women in film. At that point, I was 25, 26, and I never had thought about women in film. I never realized that I didn’t know any female directors, or the ways that women are portrayed. So I enrolled in a master’s program and decided to study this. 

In the process, I wanted to do something different, an antithesis of the male gaze. It’s a big question – what is the female gaze? How do you achieve that? I thought,  I'm going to show this body, but I'm not going to sexualize this, but I'm going to let this body be sexual.

The script changed a lot. At the start, it was more about the failure of the marriage. These long term relationships that people do not even talk to one another anymore. I was sharing it with other women filmmakers, and I realized maybe I should show her seeking for pleasure for real. I never saw another woman trying to have an orgasm on film.

I think people are afraid of the movie. But do you know where I found space? In the LGBTQ+ community. Those festivals were the open space for this film. This is not a LGBTQ+ film per se, but that was the only space where people are allowed to openly talk about elderly women, talk about female sexuality.

Still from The Pleasure Is All Mine

If you could change one thing about Canadian or Brazilian cinema, what would it be?

I have some problems with Canadian film because it lacks some deeper meaning, generally speaking. I'm not a specialist, but I feel that the young filmmakers are so stuck with the idea that they have to do Hollywood types of things. So I see very well filmed films with good cameras. Technically speaking, good, but with no content. What is their statement? Why are you telling this story? You have to be very assertive. 

We were talking before about the why. At some point I said to myself, I can be a director because I do like those things. You have people in the project that love other things. They can bring their skills and you can work on what your statement is, what your strength is like.

My strength is working with actors, and that's why I do films. I love working with actors. The other people can bring in the rest so you don't have to know everything. You don't have to.

Interview by Breakthroughs Board Member Sunita Miya-Muganzar

*This article has been edited for clarity

Filmmaker Spotlight: Emma Zuck, Adagio

EMMA ZUCK is a filmmaker and writer. She is wrapped up in the sentimental— unraveling themes of identity, home, queerness, and growing pains. Her thesis film Adagio premiered at Toronto Reel Asian International Film Festival, taking home the Air Canada Short Film Award. She has had the pleasure of working with CBC, Bell Media, PostMedia, and Angel Entertainment. As well as recent endeavors into programming, hosting Homegrown, a community screening featuring Saskatchewan filmmakers with proceeds going to local charities. 

She sees poetry all around her, focusing on life’s subtleties in her work. Her favourite part of filmmaking is the many hands it takes, she hopes to nurture community both on set and in theaters. And to make every project a labor of love.

How did you go about writing for and directing something as visually technical as ballet?

I actually grew up doing ballet, so a lot of it was pulling from memory and choosing a choreographer we could lean on. But honestly, it was really scary and definitely the most daunting part of the film. So if any ballerinas watch this, go easy. Our lead, Selina, was a champ and did a lot of extra prep on her own time, and ultimately it was being very flexible with expectations and making sure first and foremost that Selina was safe and wouldn't injure herself.

Because dancing on point is no joke.

Still from Adagio

I found that sound (or lack thereof) seemed to be a very deliberate storytelling device for your film - can you speak more to that?

Silence became very deliberate in the desire to speak to the things left unsaid, or things that we cannot say, but also because breath was an important part of the film. I thought a lot about how tension is held in the body. In ballet, you're holding a certain posture, isolating different muscle groups. It's physically very difficult. And when you're coming into your queerness, I feel like your body is speaking to you and you're noticing.

When does my heart rate speed up? When do I relax? In both of these scenarios, you are uncomfortable. You're tense, but you have to hide it. And breath reveals a lot. So I wanted the audience to breathe with faith, to feel in their own body. And that requires a lot of silence.

Still from Adagio

What filmmakers have inspired you?

Some filmmakers that inspire me, Fawzia Mirza, Greg Araki, Isaac Chung, of course, Wong Kar wai, Celine Sciamma, Barry Jenkins, to name a few.

What advice would you give to an emerging filmmaker just starting out?

My advice to emerging filmmakers would just be to write all the time. It doesn't even need to be scripts. It could be short stories or poetry or stream of consciousness. But the more you stretch that muscle, the less daunting the practice becomes. And for me at least, the less fear you have of writing something bad because you've written so much. It's all just stuff. Some that you'll keep and use and some that needed to come out to further distill your idea.

Still from Adagio

What is next for you?

I'm currently home in Saskatoon working on a new film called stubble for an art exhibit, and that's an experimental documentary about gender that asks people, when do you wish to be soft? When do you long to be rough, and when are you both at the same time?

Interview by Breakthroughs Board Member Asya Twahir

*This article has been edited for clarity

Filmmaker Spotlight: Sara Rangooni, Leveled

Founder of Dalphinium Media, SARA RANGOONI is a Director and Writer dedicated to changing the narrative for equity deserving communities through powerful storytelling. Born and raised in Toronto, her award-winning proof of concept, short film, Leveled still continues to make the festival circuit worldwide and has catapulted her to new heights. She believes in the power of changing perspective through four-dimensional storytelling.

As one of four selected for Rising Voices with Hillman Grad, Bipoc TV& Film and Indeed for Leveled, she is in the development stages of her coming-of-age feature. With a slate of projects in film and series, Sara is dedicated to telling powerful stories that centre on themes of belonging, love and loss layered with a distinct dramatic and comedic tone which is both entertaining and relatable.

Sara is committed to changing the narrative by pushing boundaries and challenging cultural norms. She continues to charter a path in the industry through various recognized programs and creating content on screen as a proficient writer and director.

What is your film about? What were the intentions behind it?

This film is about a young girl named Sapphire. She is trying to pursue her dreams, and she's confronted with all these challenges on this particular day. One of them is a very matriarchal grandmother and a mom who is sick with cancer. So we follow her on this day where anything and everything could possibly happen to her. The questions that I really wanted the audience to start thinking about is, how do we suffer managing so many different levels of challenges in life, and will she be able or will she want to, be still motivated to, after all the challenges, pursue this dream that she's had since she was little?

That's the film. I'm so vague about it because I really don't want to give it away, because there is this kind of magical moment towards the end, where you can start realizing what her dreams are. I think what's really great about this film, in that way and that story, is that I really wanted to create a story where it doesn't matter what you look like, it doesn't matter where you come from, it doesn't matter.

You know what the expectations are. Conventionally, Sapphire really defies all that. She is pursuing a dream that perhaps a lot of people wouldn't even think is a possibility. And that was really what the point of the story was, creating this possibility. Especially with young girls who struggle with just doing the things they love the most.

Maybe it's family, maybe it's societal expectations. I think it's South Asians, too. And as Muslims, we're expected to be a doctor or a lawyer or something. And it's not often that we are able to be like, oh, I want to be a filmmaker. And even if we want to be that, we have to really keep it a secret.

That's something that lives inside our hearts. So I wanted that to really manifest and kind of show the ups and the downs of what happens when you're really, really, really, serious about pursuing your dreams.

Still from Leveled

It’s one of those things that sparks for me as well, coming from a very Muslim background, like as you said, being South Asian, being a woman. As we grow up, we're only shown that there's only one way of doing things. How did this eventually help you to craft your own film? What was that experience like for you?

So when I was writing the screenplay, my grandma—who I was really close to—she's a lovely lady. She was a lovely lady. She was taking her last breaths. And she lived with us growing up. I had this moment where I was thinking about how resilient she was. She was for such a long time. And I thought, what if she was given a different set of parameters? She came from a very underprivileged background, and my grandfather, marrying him gave her a privileged life, but it wasn't privileged enough because she was still this female living in Karachi, Pakistan, having to deal with all these different levels of bias against women.

So I always wondered, what would she have been? What would she have done? As I was writing, I thought all of us have generational trauma, regardless of where we come from, we all have to deal with. But on the other hand, what if we created a world that defied all that trauma and made it possible for this young girl to actually do what she wanted to do? And what would that work look like? And what would her family look like and what would her parents look like? And that's basically how I came up with Leveled.

Still from Leveled

You did talk briefly about the inspiration behind making the film, but I also wanted to know, apart from that, what was it like when you were starting to write it down? Were there any specific visual elements that inspired you into the making?

I love Greta Gerwig's Little Women screenplay. It is one of my favorite screenplays. I read it very often. I think it's really brilliantly written, but also because I love the story of Little Women, and it's just about all these young women, who are just going through their own challenges during this period in our history.

I thought, okay, that is something that as a South Asian female Muslim I've gone through. I've had family living with us for years. I've had like 3 to 4 generations of women living under the same home. And it was pretty cool growing up with that experience. So that really played into Leveled.

On the other hand, writing it in terms of tone, on how I wanted to portray Safa, who's the protagonist… I really wanted to create a protagonist that was relatable, that could defy gender, culture, religion. Yes, she wears a hijab. Yes, she comes from this  almost traditional family in some ways, and modern family in some ways. But how can I make that relatable to someone who isn’t the same gender and doesn't come from the same cultural background or religious background? That was really important to me. That to me, it was about creating this nuanced character that is very much like myself in a lot of ways. I've had people watch the film and be like, oh my God, like, I can totally relate to her. And they haven't had the same background as her. 

In terms of like, visually, I am, I am obsessed with Spike Lee. He's someone I've really looked up to. From a director's standpoint. I really, really wanted to incorporate these really urban, raw moments in the film. So there are these like, exterior shots that take us, like someone who's from the wrong side of the tracks to the right side of the tracks, whatever that means, to moments where there's certain shots that I took a chance with that I wanted to have in the film, that I was inspired by a lot of his films. Do the Right Thing was one of them. 

Color was very important to me in this film. And if you really take a closer look, there's a lot of pink tones, a lot of blush. I love that's one of my favorite colors, but that's just such a calming and peaceful color too. I really wanted Safa to be associated with that color.

When you were thinking of the visual aspects of this film, did you already had the color palette in your mind?

As a writer, because I feel like I'm a writer first, I really just go to the script and I write these characters for what they are. These visions come to me, and I'll take note of them. When it came time for pre-production and I had a long time to prepare, I was very specific with the color and the tone. That's kind of how I approach all of my projects. It was something that I worked with my DP on before we went to camera. We worked with the lighting department before we went to camera, and they were able to create that perfect moment in each scene for me.

Post is a very different process. It's almost like you're redoing the film on another level. Working with my colorist and just exploring how those pink tones could, at times, affect certain shots was something that I didn't expect. That was a learning moment. But I had such a great team that they were able to help me see my vision to life.

Still from Leveled

My next question has two parts. The first part of it is how was pre-production? And then the second part, what kind of advice would you give out to emerging filmmakers who are just starting out?

In terms of pre-development, when I created or wrote Leveled, I did want to figure out if this was something that I could take to screen. I knew in my heart I could, but it was my first real big production with this budget. I submitted it to various screenplay competitions. And, when I started getting some of the accolades, that was a confirmation to me that what I was feeling inside is true and I want to take this to screen. It just so happened that it was around Covid and it was challenging to figure out how I was going to navigate this landscape because I was quite new to the industry, so I didn't know as many people.

So connecting with people online, learning about the process. What was really great is I had a background in digital media, so I brought a lot of that business sense to the project management part, of creating in terms of pre-development. And, that is kind of how I worked on Leveled, just kind of learning and understanding and figuring out. 

I learned that it's okay to ask questions. It's okay to not know exactly how things work. It can be really intimidating. A lot of my friends in film school really helped me understand, okay, this is what you need to do. Another element to making this film was to create your tribe, rely on people who you can trust. I'm all about feedback. I'm all about making sure that every step that I'm working on is headed in the right direction. For me, preparation and planning was so important. So that was a key element.

My advice to emerging filmmakers is to just not stop. If you feel stuck, that's okay. That's almost like a good sign. That means that you are on the right track. You just have to find a solution. And I think that's kind of the complications or challenges that we have in this industry, is that there's no one way of making a film. If you surround yourself with the right people and you know what your goal is and you set those goals and you align those in the intention that you have, as a storyteller with those goals, I think you're going to be okay. 
For me, my goal was to create a story that could change the narrative for young Muslim girls. The way that they see themselves is normalized on screen, because that's just something I never had. That was something that just kept me going. I'm not going to say it was easy. It was definitely challenging. And it was a learning experience. But I think every project you work on  there will be something new that you learn about yourself. 

Which filmmakers have really inspired you when it comes to your own work or when it comes to telling stories, the ones that you really want to tell.

I mentioned Greta Gerwig, I just think she's a brilliant writer. I'm such a nerd writer. So I love,  love reading scripts that really speak to me like her. I love Spike Lee like he has been. He's just so OG to me. He just knows how to make a film happen, and he is not about all the hoopla and making it Uber big. It's just about the story. And that's really important to me. As a storyteller, I also really love, just last year at TIFF, Zaheer Khan, I love his work. I love Saim Sadiq, Joyland. It was just perfection to me. I think there's just certain creators that are just doing things that are just so inspiring to me.I love Mindy Kaling. I think there's just so many people, I don't want to name just one. For me, I think what's important is, staying true to the story and really looking at people who are doing it differently and out of the box, but still being able to get to the meat of the story.

I really believe, if you don't have a good script, if your story has holes in it, if your story doesn't have a beginning, middle and end – yes, I am definitely a Save the Cat girl. A lot of filmmakers that I've been name dropping here, they all know what story telling is for me and so many more.

Queen of My Dreams is another example. Fawzia, who just took this concept and put it on screen and it was just so beautifully made. John Hughes, I love his storytelling.

What do you have next for you?

I am working on the development of my feature for Leveled right now. Packaging that, trying to look for funds, trying to take that to camera. I just got out of the Rising Voices program, and I learned so much from that program and was able to bring this feature script to life.

I'm also working on a short film called Lavenders in Bloom that is a very different story. A little bit more magical realism in it. So those are the two films that I'm working on, and I have a series in development as well. And a book that I'm actually hoping to have published very soon that I have been working on for the last four years.

That’s amazing stuff, excited to see them. My last question. What was the best advice that you received while you were on this journey of filmmaking?

The best advice I received is going to be complicated to understand. But if you know, you know, it's on one hand, it's okay to not be okay and not know. Sometimes what it is that is next. But at the same time, prepare and plan and set goals for yourself. I think that's really, really important because you can get really lost in this industry and really caught up with things that might not align with what you originally intended to do when you came, and entered this, this, amazing, crazy, wild industry.

But when you have goals and you prepare and you plan and you set these milestones for yourself, you're constantly working towards something.

Another advice that I got from my mentor, Tricia Fish. She is a screenplay writer. She told me to write the stories that I want to see and not be afraid to do that. I always hold that close to my heart, because every time I'm about to work on a new script I can get lost in my head trying to figure out which direction at times you want to go with. Then I center myself. I have it literally on my board in front of my desk, “what story do you want to see?” That's how simple it is. So those were some of the best advices I got.

I knew that I needed to tell that story. I didn't wait for someone to give me the green light. I just greenlit it myself. That's the beauty of being a filmmaker or being a storyteller. And once you prepare and you have everything planned out, when that fund comes, it's almost like you manifested that.

Interview by Breakthroughs Board Member Daraksha Rehman

*This article has been edited for clarity

Filmmaker Spotlight: Christina Ienna, Gemma

CHRISTINA IENNA is an award-winning cinematographer and filmmaker based in Toronto. She has an extensive background in commercial, documentary and narrative production. She also sits on the Board of the Canadian Society of Cinematographers.

In her fifteen years of industry experience, Christina has filmed all over North America with companies like TOURISM CANADA, AMAZON, LIFETIME, PIXAR, CBC, THE GLOBE & MAIL, VICE and UNIVERSAL MUSIC. She spent the early part of her career working in Alberta and British Columbia before moving to Toronto. Christina leads with great curiosity, finding stories in the small moments and details that make up the human experience.

Gemma's beautiful. There's something very evocative about it and really effervescent and, and of course, it's stunning to look at. When I first watched it, I was struck by the thematic similarities with your first film, which I didn't expect, because Handmade is a doc and Gemma is narrative. Can you speak a little bit about the connection between the two stories, and what draws you to these themes?

Well, I didn't notice that, but thank you. Is it because it's just like the actual creativity of being an auteur and creating everything from scratch?

It's the pursuit of excellence in that task. What is ambition? What is success? What is satisfying to oneself? Pushing oneself in that way?

I find that magnetic because I relate to it. I pursued a very male dominant career myself as a cinematographer. It was very difficult to do that type of craft, and you had to go at it alone, hoping that some people would mentor you along the way.

At the end of the day, it's really up to you to learn your craft and get good at it. I knew really early on that this is what I wanted, but I still had to take like a big windy loop to get there. And that's how I started directing, too. Because I had to produce my own content to show that I could shoot, and be as good a cinematographer as anybody else because no one was hiring me to do it.

Thematically, I explored the idea that we often pressure ourselves to be good at hobbies, but they don't need to be something that you're amazing at. They're just something that should bring you joy. A lot of people have this idea that their hobbies have to serve them in some kind of way. I think it's just supposed to be a cathartic thing, that you find comfort and creativity in, and without the pressure of everyday life, like making a paycheck from it.

There's a little undertone of ADHD, too, as I'm recently discovering my place on the spectrum. Many of us are trying a lot of things, discovering new hobbies, and never sticking with them because of distractions in our lives.

It's a little play on the commentary on mental health. If you want to be good at something, you have to stick with it a little bit. And sometimes people struggle with that as well.

I also liked the challenge of talking about [Gemma] as a person solely moving throughout the world, trying to figure out who she is without outer influence.

Still from Gemma

How has your extensive experience as a DP informed your approach as a director?

I think it's important, in whatever role you choose, to try a few roles, because you’ll have a deeper understanding of how your crew is functioning and telling the story from their point of view. That really helps me understand their creative process and their thinking.

As a DP, I'm editing in my head – I have editing experience too – I can visually see how a script is going to lay out when I'm reading it, [but I'm also getting different perspectives from different directors, too. A lot of directors don't get to see other directors at work the same way. 

It's really interesting to do that flip in my brain when I'm doing both at the same time. I didn't have to go and have a conversation, I felt a little crazy. But it was quite funny. Because I was like, “oh, no, I have to do this shot, then I have to pick up this, and then this has to transition here.” I was able to move through things quicker, but at the same time, it is nice to have that partner to creatively split duties. 

[Working with actors] was a challenge for me because I don't get to talk to the actors much as a cinematographer. That was a cool experience to have more one-on-one time and work through the process with my amazing actress, Talia, who just, oh my gosh, if we did not have her, I don't think the film would have happened because she was just ready to do whatever I told her to do. We literally threw tennis balls at her! But she wanted to go again, even though I already felt bad throwing tennis balls at her the first time. She brought so much energy throughout.

And my team was amazing, working with your friends is awesome. And the fun fact is, I had the crew bring in their own hobbies. So the set is littered with everyone's hobbies, as well.

What filmmakers have inspired you?

I have a laundry list. I'll list a few names in a minute, but for me, I like when, either as a cinematographer or director, the camera is truly part of telling the story, it's not a distraction, it's an asset. 

Some of my favourites are Sarah Polley, Jordan Peele, Wes Anderson, Bong Joon Ho, Darren Aronofsky, Spike Lee, Coen brothers for directors, Roger Deakins, as you know, he is a god among us, a person of photographers. Him and his partner, James. A lot of people don't know this: James’ wife has a huge impact on his career because she takes care of a lot of his admin, and she goes to all his lens tests. I love that partnership between the two of them. And I'm kind of envious. I wish I had someone like that in my corner. Helping my career as a cinematographer so that I could just be a cinematographer and create.

Emmanuel Lubezki, Neville Kid who is really cool. He's shot a lot of projects that I love. Rachel Morrison, Susan Lavelle, Reed Morano, Hoyte van Hoytema, like, all these are incredible cinematographers that have shot epic films.

The partnership there in the storytelling is awesome. That's what I'm looking for as both a director and cinematographer is finding my own DP or my own director, to have a beautiful little courtship with and creating a film. It's a lot like dating.

Still from Gemma

What advice would you give to an emerging filmmaker just starting out?

If you're just starting out, the best thing you can do is be present and be observant and just absorb as much as you possibly can whenever you're able to get on a film set. 

The biggest thing that's going to get you your next job is showing initiative and proactiveness. You don't need to know everything, but your attitude and your approach is what people are looking for when you're starting out.

Create your own opportunities and collaborate with other people that are also seeking to do the same. Find those people and make something, investing in people before gear is super important because those relationships are going to grow. As you grow and their success and their knowledge now becomes part of your success and knowledge and vice-versa. 

And because you're new, this is the time to actually make mistakes and really learn from them, because the stakes are lower and you don't have a huge client or millions of dollars on the line. So you can mess around. You have that luxury that a lot of us that are working for a paycheck don't.

What is next for you?

I shot a few short narrative projects over the summer, so I'm waiting for those to be done so I can go into a color grade session with those. I'm [also] waiting to have a couple documentaries get greenlit. I’m really excited for some of those because there's a bit of travel involved and the topics are really cool, and a lot of them are very women centric. I can't talk about them, but I'm hoping to be able to share them in a few months once I start shooting. 

Still from Gemma

Interview by Breakthroughs Board Member Michelle D'Alessandro Hatt

*This article has been edited for clarity

Filmmaker Spotlight: Nelie Diverlus, Ninth Step

NELIE DIVERLUS is an emerging writer and director. Born in Florida, her love of art blossomed amongst a large family of many artists. Most recently, her work has been featured in Breakthroughs Film Festival and St. John’s International Women’s Festival, in addition to working for recognized production networks as Telefilm and the Canadian Film Centre. With her thick Haitian roots, Nelie wishes to revolutionize cinema in ways that spark creativity and hope within the artist in all of us.

Can you tell us a bit about the inspiration behind the film? Why this story right now? 

Well, Ninth Step was born from my own personal experience with an extended family member who, just because of his life experiences and his life choices, I was unable to meet. There was a point in time in which he was vying to meet us, but my family had cut him off.

I wasn't able to meet him because of that. And this inspired me to think about what it must be like for those that are incarcerated to be cut off from their own family members, and to not have access to their loved ones and still trying to regain control of that, even post incarceration.

It also just made me think of just like what rehabilitation truly looks like, for those that were incarcerated, and that's who Andre was for me, somebody who is trying to navigate it on his own but is having trouble, both connecting with loved ones, but is also just trying to find his footing from a long life that he endured in prison.

So. Yeah, it's born out of a personal anecdote, but, on a social level as a whole, it made me think of how hard it must be for those that were previously incarcerated to rebuild a life for themselves.

Still from Ninth Step

Building on that, can you speak a bit about how this film deals with gender and masculinity? 

It's a bit of a loose take on the whole notion that men can't cry, men can't feel, you know, and the level of vulnerability that has been kind of stolen from a lot of men in society. But it also shows the intergenerational, like the strifes that we deal with, kind of trying to relate to different generations, but also like knowing how things are very cyclical.

The struggles that Darnell is feeling right now in his final year of high school, Andre being an ex-convict, can relate to. And so it explores age as well, like generations and generational patterns, within that as well. I think it just explores vulnerability in a way that masculinity doesn't, is more new to exploring.

The cinematography of the film is so beautiful and textured, and I was really moved by your use of colour. How did you approach the look of the film?

I wanted to have his loneliest moments be blue. I think those were blue and whites and the cool tones were what captured I think loneliness best. So especially the moment where he's at the bus stop. I knew that that was, I wanted that to feel the coldest. I wanted him to feel all his emotions, even him rubbing his hands, you know, blowing air into his hands.

I know that's the moment that he feels the most blue. And I wanted to capture that most at that point.

But I also wanted to, in the scene with him and Yassir, you see some some golds and some yellows as well to spark hope. In that moment, Andre does feel very hopeful about connecting with his former friend. I want it to reflect that there. But then we also still have some blues to remind him that this is still a very lonely journey that he's embarking on. I wanted the contrast of warmth and cool, to kind of reflect how they mirror each other in different ways.

They contrast to each other in varying ways as well. Specific shot wise, I also wanted it to feel, very slow to reflect his reintegration to society. It's going to be a very long journey. And I wanted some very still moments. You know, just along moments of pausing.

Can you tell us a bit about which filmmakers and/or films have inspired you as a director, and whether there were any specific influences for Ninth Step?

Three filmmakers come to mind: Raoul Peck, Agnès Varda and Kelly Fyffe Marshall.

Raoul Peck, from a stance of just being such a strong Haitian filmmaker. I'm Haitian myself. And seeing somebody who has such a staunch, Haitian background paving ways for the rest of us is always something that’s just so beautiful to see. I remember watching I Am Not Your Negro for the first time and just being like, “I cannot believe one of me is making a film that,” remarkable.

And Agnès Varda, I remember watching Cléo de Cinq à Sept for the first time, in class a few years ago, and just being amazed at her level of… it was her that coined using your cinematography to write, like using it as a pen, sort of. I think I got the slowness and the stillness through her filmography as well.

Kelly Fyffe Marshall, I think is incredible in so many regards. But, I remember watching Black Bodies and just seeing how significantly portrays Black masculinity as well, and just Black identity in general and seeing it portrayed so beautifully on screen, knowing how Blackness has been portrayed on screen. Seeing the ways that she does it so, so, so effectively is something that's just so nice to see. Seeing just a Black female director paving the way for us is always so incredible, especially as a Black Canadian filmmaker, too.

Those are the three directors that come to mind in general that have shaped the ways that I think about film, the ways that I write for film, the ways very direct for film.

When thinking about when writing this film originally, I thought, specifically this episode of Euphoria with Rue and Ali, when she was dealing with her addictions and she was struggling to mend her own personal relationships. She had such insightful conversation in a diner booth with Ali. And Ali was also dealing with trying to mend his own personal relationship with his child. That sparked such inspiration for Ninth Step, seeing the ways and somebody who has kind of left, or is trying to leave a life of turmoil and trying to mend their own personal relationships with their family members, and how difficult that is, and how much of life you miss out on when you are just dealt really bad cards. Just a scene in the TV show that just like, opened my mind up to a whole world of topics that we can discuss within film. That's the one, I think, honestly, that inspired it so much. Any other example I can think of pales in comparison to how much I got inspired from that one scene.

Still from Ninth Step

What advice would you give to an emerging filmmaker just starting out?

You'll hear this a million times, but it's a marathon, not a race. You never have to fear getting started right away after graduating. Or even if you're not in school, just like when you're just starting in the film industry, you don't have to have it all together in your first year. It's going to take some time. You should just be really patient with yourself, because sometimes you take two steps forward and three steps back. And that's just kind of the way that it's built. Try as best as you can to not get trapped in comparing yourself to others. This is kind of a message to myself as well. If it means genuinely taking a step away and just focus on yourself and not looking at who's behind or ahead of you, whoever they are, will help you to correct your own path and correct your own craft and do whatever you have to do to make sure that your your path is secure for yourself.

It's also about, like Issa Rae said, networking across networking, not networking above. It is really helped by community as well. So understanding that kind of we're all in this together, we're all trying to navigate together. And even if that means sometimes somebody might be two steps out of you, that doesn't mean that you'll never advance further. They often times will help you advance further, as well. So it's all about understanding that everybody has their own path but it's always best navigated together.

What is next for you?

I've been working a bit in unscripted. I've found a niche in crafting stories that literally make something out of nothing, I think is really, really cool. But on a scripted format, I am writing some scripts in the meantime. Right now, I'm focused on assisting others on projects, I'm taking a step back and making sure that I'm gaining more knowledge on other areas of production as well. A lot of learning in this phase of my life. But I do see myself definitely in the near future getting back into the short form landscape.

Still from Ninth Step

Interview by Breakthroughs Board Member Hayley Rivier-Gatt

*This article has been edited for clarity